In previous posts, Running Past has followed the Quaggy from its sources around Locksbottom and then on through Petts Wood, the Hawkwood Estate, Chislehurst and Bickley and through the golf courses of Sundridge Park and on to Chinbrook Meadows.
We left the Quaggy in a concrete channel coming out of Chinbrook Meadows. A small weir lowers the level of the river bed as it exits the park, it is not to provide a more natural bed though, the notched river bed gives way to a flat one but it is still concrete – attempting to quickly move the water on, as was de-rigour in the 1960s. The river isn’t completely barren at this point – some small plants are clinging onto an existence but struggling to put down any roots.
It is in a clear valley as it crosses Chinbrook Road, with climbs up to both Grove Park Station and the Grove Park and Chinbrook housing estates (both covered by the excellent Municipal Dreams blog). But that is about as natural as it gets – while the shape of the banks and the bed change the concrete seems to remain as the Green Chain Path follows its eastern bank, it is a path that it marked on early Ordnance Survey maps (on a Creative Commons from the National Library of Scotland)
The path emerges out onto what used to be called Claypit Lane but is now called Marvels Lane. The road is bridged and heads towards the entrance to some playing fields – this isn’t how it has always been though. As the Ordnance Survey map above from the 1890s shows, there used to be a small pool and a distinct meander at this point – taking the Quaggy in front of the former agricultural workers cottages – Sydenham Cottages (below) – presumably for Claypit Farm (just off map, although no longer marked by the 1890s).
There was serious flooding there – notably in 1968 – which seems to have led the channelisation and straightening of the river. The Quaggy encased in concrete is now more or less devoid of life at this point. Its former meander is now the Sydenham Cottages nature reserve which despite its river bank location has almost no trace of wetland habitat remaining.
The straight channel is slightly disturbed opposite the nature reserve with a concrete access ramp (see above left photograph) – this has led to some fluvial deposits in the slowest moving bits of the river. Plants have colonised the sediments, but it is a precarious existence, without deep roots, they could be lost to the next high flow.
Opposite the nature reserve, and clearly visible from it is the outflow, just above the river level, one of the tributary streams joins the Quaggy, Grove Park Ditch – which rises in Marvels Wood and has an attractive 400 metres through woodland and park edge before being forcibly submerged around the edge of the Chinbrook Estate and then the playing fields of the former Fairy Hall – which gave its name to another stream in the Quaggy catchment, Fairy Hall Flow.
The river is followed by the Green Chain Path for another hundred metres or so before the path veers off to the right towards Mottingham Lane and the last home of WG Grace. For those following the river as a walk this is the way to head and then re-join the Quaggy near at the junction with Winns Avenue.
For most of the 20th Century the former over spill Greenwich Union Workhouse, Grove Park Hospital, dominated the area – its land went up to the banks of the Quaggy – the slight valley is clear from the postcard below (source eBay November 2016).
The location both as a workhouse and in its early days as a hospital, led to its under use as it away from the urban area. It spent time as a military barracks and hospital during World War 1 ( see post card below – eBay May 2016) but was a TB and chest hospital for most of its ‘life’, although latterly became a mental health institution – the development of care in the community and associated hospital closure programme meant that its days were numbered. It closed in 1994 and is now a mixture of a private health club and housing.
There used to be a second meander, in what were the grounds of Grove Park Hospital but that too was removed presumably at the same time as that of Sydenham Cottages. The meander is easy to see on the ground, next to the former hospital is a private leisure centre through whose ground there is access to a scrubby field that gently slopes down to the river, the path to it, which traverses a broken down bit of chain link fencing, is easy to miss though. The former meander is a jungle of brambles which proved something of an obstacle to the bare-legged urban explorer. A little further along the path that loops around the unkempt grass, the Quaggy is reachable and seems almost back to its semi-rural state last seen on Tong Farm, several miles back upstream. It is but a brief interlude though – the Wates developed houses on the former Melrose Farm soon appear on the western bank and the river is left to flow behind the gardens of Westdene Avenue and Jevington Way.
On the eastern bank is Hadlow College, which was once the site of a large Victorian house, Mottingham Hall. For a while, the site was the Macintyre Nature Reserve – part of an organisation that provided support for people with mental health disabilities, it then became an outpost of Phoebes Garden Centre, before being taking on by Hadlow College. Contours would suggest that there may have been at least one stream joining the Quaggy in this area.
The Quaggy emerges into the public gaze by the side of the entrance to the College, still with natural banks, although one is lost as it hugs the side of Mottingham Lane before flowing through a shiny new screen to prevent blockages in a section under the Lane. The opposite side of the road is then meandered against, with the fields of Mottingham Riding School on the other side, before a confluence with one of the Quaggy’s larger tributaries, the Little Quaggy close to the Sidcup by-pass (below, right.)
In several Facebook threads there are memories of playing in the river in this area, catching sticklebacks and taking them home in jam jars, going through the underground sections of the river both under Mottingham Lane and the braver ones under the A20. Others used to play ‘Quaggy jumping’ in this area near the now closed Dutch House pub. ‘It was always a triumph when you reached the other side without getting wet shoes, good days.’
Any feelings of ‘rus in urbe’ are soon lost after crossing the A20, while edged by grass and trees on initially scrubland and then a series of sports grounds, the concrete bed and banks return in their bleakest form anywhere on the river, any remaining sticklebacks would be hard pressed to find food. The concrete course is almost as straight as a Roman road as it bypasses playing fields including the new home of Greenwich Borough FC, whose previous permanent ground, Harrow Meadow, adjacent to the Quaggy in Sutcliffe Park was lost to developers in 2009 – and they had a nomadic existence for a few years. On the opposite bank, until the early 1930s, would have been the Middle Park Farm – like Horn Park Farm it was originally site one of the Eltham Palace’s hunting parks.
The river then squeezes between back gardens and is bridged the South Circular – on the south side it is shielded by a wall of a height that makes visibility of the flow impossible; on the northern side while the parapet was lower the overhanging shrub on both sides of the river meant that the flow was still invisible. It emerges back into the open at Eltham Bridge. This is an area that is still subject to flooding – over 20 houses were flooded around Christmas 2013. Before leaving the Quaggy there for another day a stop at the Bridge is worth making; it has an old London County Council sign with a wide variety of rules relating to bridges it controlled up until 1965. Mooring a vessel at Eltham Bridge would be quite challenging though …..
I used to live in sSidthorp Road up until 1951, and we used to get to the Quaggy down the ally that led to the Dutch House where we crossed the road and into the farmers field that the Quaggy flowed through. We did all the usual things as mentioned, and while playing down the Quaggy, I fell in up to my neck. I was probably 3 or 4 years old. I told my mum it was the rain that made me wet. We went ar far as the other side of the tunnel under the railway line. Happy Days.
Fantastic memories there Vincent!
There’s another large trash screen,just upriver of Eltham Bridge, by the allotments.
Looking forward to the next leg at Sutcliffe Park.
Thanks for visiting! There are a lot of screens all the way down the river, usually just before they go into an underground culvert; trying to stop blockages in the pipe as those are a nightmare to clear.
This breaks my heart to see the Quaggy like this, I used to live in Balder Rise just off of Marvels Lane and used to go to Marvels Lane Primary School, we always used to ‘muck’ about in the Quaggy, building dams, jumping over, or in my case falling in before it was encased in the awful concrete overcoat. Such happy days, even now consider it my river though I now live the other side of the borough. Thanks to the Thames 21 website I have been able to give back by helping to litter pick at Manor Park. Thank you for putting these posts I love the Quaggy 😊
Thank you! Parts of this stretch are really depressing – more so than any other part of the river. Most of the damage was done in the 1960s as a response to several serious floods – notably in 1968 but there were several bad ones that decade. Like many urban rivers, the Quaggy was unloved and often used as a dumping ground, fewer people seemed to care about it and it was felt that the best way to deal with flooding was to move water quickly to the Thames. Even the then local MP, Chris Chattaway, described it as a ‘wretched stream’ in 1965.
Pingback: Following the Quaggy – Sutcliffe Park to Lee Green | Running Past
Pingback: Following the Quaggy – Lee Green to Hocum Pocum Lane | Running Past
Pingback: Following the Quaggy – Manor Park to the Ravensbourne | Running Past
Many a good hour or three playing in the quaggy in chinbrook meadows park. The river was crossed by the railway and there was an arch which kind of divided the park in two. One year probably mid to late 60s the river burst it’s banks on the Bromley side of the park and a deluge of water burst through the railway tunnel into the chinbrook side. What a spectacle it was not to mention highly dangerous. One wrong move and anyone man woman or child would have been swept away. But that didn’t stop all the children having great fun throwing objects into the torrent and watching them disappear underground at the river exit toward chinbrook rd. H&S ?
Great memories; the flood would probably have been in 1968.
remember that 1968 flood very well,we helped push cars through the Chinbrook dip as we called it,but cars that ignored our advice to go slow through it keeping the revs high to clear the exhaust pipe,some would just barge through at high speed the wash knocking people over,if they cut out we just left them to get their feet wet,filling up their foot well as they opened their door we just laughed at them as they got their best suits and shoes somewhat wet.Dave Carter,Dave Dash,Dennis Baines and Roland Glazier.
What fantastic memories David!
Pingback: Beating The Bounds of Lee – Winn Road to Grove Park | Running Past
Pingback: Beating the Bounds of Lee, Part 4 – Chinbrook and Downham | Running Past